Grey Divorce: What You Need to Know About Mediation

Wendy Green [00:00:33]:

Hey, Boomer is the podcast where we go beyond the surface, exploring the complexities of family relationships, maintaining health, navigating caregiving, coping with divorce or widowhood, and embracing new relationships. It's the podcast that acknowledges the challenges and opportunities that come with aging with a compassionate and realistic approach. In today's episode, we will focus on the challenges relationships face that could ultimately end in late in life divorce. From 1990 to 2021, the most significant increase in divorce rates was among people 65 and older. The rate tripled during that time, 1990 to 2021. Amazing. I know a lot of my audience out in hay Boomer land is happily married or happily coupled, and there are also a lot of happily single people who listen. But we all know that there are some listeners who are struggling in their marriages and their relationships.

Wendy Green [00:01:42]:

None of us marry expecting that it won't work out. And according to my guest today, Dr. Eleanor Robin, late life divorces come in many stages. Some people have been married for years, 40, 50 years, when they decide it's time they need to move on in their lives. And there are late life divorces that show up in second and third marriages, which makes sense because those marriages don't have as good a track record as first marriages. We've also all seen the contentious divorces portrayed in media, and I'm sure we all know people who have had really horrible, knockdown, drag out divorces where the whole intent was to damage the other person. But in today's episode, Dr. Eleanor and I hope to present some opportunities for making these endings less painful and leave you with some tips to reduce the conflict that causes so much hurt and destruction when a split does happen.

Wendy Green [00:02:50]:

Dr. Eleanor is a licensed mental health counselor, a licensed marriage and family therapist, a PhD in psychology with a specialization in conflict management, and she has a certification from the Florida Supreme Court as a mediator and primary mediation trainer. She knows a thing or two about mediating divorce and helping couples resolve conflict and reach compromises that preserve both their self respect and the relationship. But here, before I bring her on, if you are a long distance caregiver, then you are going to want to check out CareLink360. CareLink360 can provide you with face to face communication with your loved one, no matter where they are. Think about people in assisted living who are feeling isolated and alone. With a touch of a button, they can press on your picture and immediately it calls to your phone and you can have a face to face conversation with them. In addition, the CareLink360 provides over 400 health and wellness modules designed around the multiple disease states, interests and patients capabilities. The tools include body and brain fitness, speech improvement skills, attention and processing speed exercises, cognitive, physical and occupational skill development.

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It really is an all inclusive tool that will provide you with insights and connectivity to your loved one no matter how far away they are. It's super simple to use, easy to set up. Just go to mycarelink360.com/ref/boomer to learn more and use the code boomer, all lowercase at checkout, to get 5% off your purchase. And I like to talk about RoadScholar. Road scholar has been a sponsor of ours for a very long time and they continue to be my favorite way to travel. I have done so many trips with them. I've made wonderful friends. On those trips with RoadScholar you learn so much. They have outstanding guides.

Wendy Green [00:05:27]:

I am actually going to Quebec this summer with some of the people I met at Glacier National park about a year ago. Highly, highly recommend checking out Road Scholar. Go to Roadscholar.org/heyboomer. And please use the slash heyboomer. It lets them know you found out about their services here. Let's talk about mediation. Can you first describe for me what that is and how it's different than getting two lawyers involved in a divorce?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:06:08]:

Okay, so when a couple decides they want to get a divorce, they actually have four options. They could try to figure out a way to have a do it yourself divorce, and depending on the state that they're in, there may be available to them forms that they could fill out on their own and file for a divorce. That's usually not a good plan for anyone who has anything complicated. If they have assets, it's not a good idea, and I can give you later an example of how that didn't play out for an older couple. Next, they can hire traditional attorneys who will run their case and prepare their case for trial. Or they could hire collaborative attorneys who will give them the process called collaborative divorce, which means that if things go sour and they're unable to resolve the case on their own, the collaborative attorneys will step back and they will have to start over again with traditional attorneys. And then finally, the last option is to hire a mediator on their own. And again, depending on the state that they're in, it may work a little differently.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:07:34]:

But the mediator will, at the very least, create the marital settlement agreement for them if they had children. Most boomers don't still have minor children, but if they did, the mediator would also create a parenting plan. And in many states, the mediator will also create all of the documents or forms that they need to file for an uncontested divorce. But as soon as the divorce is filed, the mediator steps away because they become unrepresented in front of the court.

Wendy Green [00:08:11]:

Okay, so you went through all four, but you said mediation last. Let's assume you just heard from your partner. I want a divorce.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:08:23]:

Yes.

Wendy Green [00:08:24]:

What's the first thing you would think people should do? Do they go to a lawyer? Do they go to a counselor? Do they go to a media? What do they do?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:08:35]:

I think they should start researching the difference in the options and try to figure out what's the best option for them. When lawyers are involved, there's, of course, two lawyers, one for each spouse. When they hire a mediator, there's only one mediator because the mediator isn't representing anyone. The mediator is there to facilitate their conversation, to help them have a discussion and go through all the items that need to be resolved so that they can negotiate and reach resolution on their own. As far as what's the best way to move forward? So often emotions get in the way. If my partner comes to me today and says, we should get a divorce and I'm all emotional and up in arms, well, then I might not be willing to sit down and negotiate. But if my partner maybe gives me a month or two of time to sit with it and be with it and kind of discuss it with my friends and supporters, maybe I would be willing then to hire a mediator. But one important piece.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:09:51]:

The mediator cannot do any investigation. What does that mean? If I am a spouse who doesn't know what we have or where it is, the mediator is not going to look into that for me. But an attorney will. An attorney will go through the process called discovery, where they're looking for things. They're doing an investigation, and that investigation will give the attorney information that I don't have. If I am the spouse who doesn't know what he or she makes or what we have or where it is or how much it's worth or whose name is on the debt.

Wendy Green [00:10:39]:

Okay. I would think if I'm heading into a divorce, the feeling of, well, first of all, obviously, we weren't very good communicators, Rach, if we're getting divorced. And so that's your first challenge as a mediator, but also the trust factor is not there. How do you ever get them to first learn to communicate and then to trust each other?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:11:09]:

Often they do trust each other enough to sit and negotiate. They do. And they've been communicating. However they've been communicating for the last, whatever amount of years we take them through. I would call it a process, but it's really a series of questions. And if they can answer those questions, starting with what car do you drive? How much do you think the car is worth? Is there a note on the car, a lien on the car? In other words, are you paying it off or do you own it outright? What retirement accounts do you have? And often they won't know. Is it a 401K or an IRA or a 403 B, or they won't know what it is. But that's easy for them to go and find out.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:11:56]:

So we take them through a process. What vehicles do you have? What retirement accounts do you have? What insurance policies do you have? One thing a lot of people don't know is that on every insurance policy there's an owner, a beneficiary, and an insured. And often they don't know who the owner is. And that's the most important person, because if you're not the owner of this insurance policy, you don't control who the beneficiary is. And sometimes they think, oh, I don't need to be the owner. Let him be the owner, and he'll have to pay the premium. But guess what? I don't care what your divorce agreement says. When he's on his deathbed, his number one priority is not going to be making the premium payments, and he may change the beneficiary to somebody else, not you.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:12:54]:

And when he passes, you're getting nothing. So people have, there's a lot of things people need to understand about the logistics or the financial logistics, we'll say, of getting a divorce. So we take them through this process, the house, real estate business, bank accounts, debts, and we try to figure it out with them. What's the best way to divide each thing?

Wendy Green [00:13:24]:

So a divorce agreement, a divorce, the separation, whatever, is about the assets and the debts, pretty much. Is there any other things that you need to consider besides that? Yeah.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:13:37]:

Well, and now we're talking really about the boomer population, who does not have any minor or dependent children anymore. Right.

Wendy Green [00:13:45]:

Right.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:13:45]:

Well, one other issue is, is there going to be money that changes hands between them subsequent to the end of the divorce? And that is a big factor. And in that case, this money might be alimony. It might be not called alimony. It might be called something else, like an equalization payment, spousal support. Well, spousal support is considered alimony. Yeah, but alimony, let's say it's the wife who's paying alimony to the husband. Right. And then the husband remarries, alimony is going to stop.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:14:29]:

But if it's some kind of equalization payment where she's making these payments to him to equalize their share of the assets, that would not have to stop if he remarries. So it's really important what things are called and people should know what their options are. So the mediator is typically not going to give people. No, not typically. The mediator is never, hopefully ever going to give anybody legal advice, but the mediator should be able to give them information so that they know if I call it this, this is how it's going to play out. If I call it that, that's how it's going to play out. And then they should make a decision as to what's the best way for them to go. So sometimes in order to calculate what the alimony is going to be, we need to note what they're spending on a monthly basis to live.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:15:28]:

And so then we're going down a whole different road.

Wendy Green [00:15:33]:

So should the mediator be aware of the laws of their state surrounding settlement and divorce?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:15:40]:

Definitely. I would never mediate a case for the most part. I mean, there could be some exception, but for the most part, I stick to Florida, whereas I live in Florida. Florida is what I know. I've been teaching mediation and studying mediation for the last 30 some OD years in Florida. I know very little about the laws outside of Florida. Now, I could go and look it up, but it's not going to be the same as the way I know how things play out in I. And there are some mediators who will tell you that they can mediate in three.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:16:25]:

Know, it's hard enough for me to keep up with different counties in I'm. To me, that's a little concern. I want to stick with somebody who, that state is where their expertise is.

Wendy Green [00:16:41]:

Okay, so let's talk gray. Divorce. I've been married 40, 50 years. I mean, we've got a lot of stuff, right. And now, I don't know, maybe he got a girlfriend. And I'm really angry about that. Can mediation work for me? I just want to put him in a box.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:17:07]:

But if you put him in a box, there's going to be a cost to you also. So let's say that your net worth is $800,000. This divorce might. So the two of you are going to argue over how to divide the 800,000. But if you hire two lawyers to fight over the 800,000, it's likely that you're going to end up giving them 100,000. And now what you're going to do is pay the two lawyers to fight over how to divide 700,000. And many people, their net worth is not 800,000, if their net worth is 150,000, and now they're giving a piece of it over to the lawyers to fight. It's a lose lose situation.

Wendy Green [00:17:57]:

But should I have a lawyer look over? Because like you said, a mediator is neutral, right? They're not representing me. They're not representing my soon to be ex. Should I get a lawyer to look over the settlement before we file it?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:18:14]:

I think that's a pretty good idea, even though most of our clients do not do it, in everything we say, we say, we encourage you to have this reviewed by independent legal counsel as well as independent certified public accountants prior to signing. But most of our clients don't. The agreements that we write, even though many of them are very complicated, they are written in simple language, and people can read it themselves and they sign. Now, the question is, how knowledgeable are you about the assets and debts of this marriage? And if you're really knowledgeable, then you have less of a desire to bring it to a lawyer. If you're not knowledgeable, that's when I have concerns. And then I would really want you to bring it to a lawyer.

Wendy Green [00:19:12]:

And so I would not put a lawyer on retainer. I would go just for. Would you do the discovery for me?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:19:18]:

Well, no, if they're going to do the discovery, they're going to be on retainer. But if you're knowledgeable, you can just hire them as a consultant. Some lawyers will do that. Some lawyers will not do it. They will not act as a consultant just to read the agreement if you have not retained them. So you may have to try a few lawyers before you find one to give you what you want.

Wendy Green [00:19:43]:

But to do the discovery, they'll need.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:19:46]:

To be on retainer, no? To do real discovery, yes, they would need to be on retainer. But what they might be able to do is say to you, get this. Get that. Show me this statement. Show me that statement. Show me this. Show me that. Years ago, we had some clients, definitely in the boomer category, and she was a very timid woman and not 100% knowledgeable, and we could say he was on the bully spectrum.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:20:25]:

Right. And we sat with there with them, and he made her an offer, and it wasn't a great offer. And she said, oh, I don't know. I have to think about it. We never let anybody sign anything at the first meeting. Never ever. So eventually, we send them a draft of the agreement. And then she came back to the second meeting, and at the second meeting, she wasn't ready to sign either.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:20:56]:

But she had a whole list of what she needed from him, various statements, et cetera. Because we keep explaining to people that before you can get divorced, you need to have disclosure between you. Now, currently in Florida, the parties do not have to file financial affidavits, but they have to exchange financial affidavits. But that's a new rule. It used to be they had to file the financial affidavits. So she comes in the second meeting, and she says, I need this, I need that. I need this, I need that. I need this statement, that statement, this.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:21:41]:

And he puts the statements together, and he gets her the statements, and then we never see her again. But I was so curious as to what happened that we looked it up on the court's computer, on the court website, and, in fact, she had gone out in between, hired a pretty high powered attorney, and by doing what she did, which was sort of like a little bit of a dirty trick on him, but she saved herself so much money because she was able to give the attorney the discovery, he would have had to start writing subpoenas, and she just collected all this stuff and then gave it to the attorney.

Wendy Green [00:22:42]:

But the way you started this story just sparked my interest. You said he was kind of a bully. She was very timid. Do you ever separate the two when you're trying to do mediation?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:22:57]:

We don't often, but we can and we occasionally will. The overriding rule for mediators is, can this person exercise self determination? And that means can they make decisions for themselves? Is this person compromised because they're under duress, they're being coerced, they're a victim of domestic violence, and they fear the other person. And when we believe that, then it's time to stop the mediation. Otherwise, we go full speed ahead.

Wendy Green [00:23:36]:

Yeah. So domestic violence, you can't mediate that?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:23:40]:

Well, actually, in Florida, we do. So we do mediate cases where there's domestic violence as long as we believe that the victim can exercise self determination. And often that means that the victim just has to be represented by an attorney. And the argument on that side is, if you're the victim of domestic violence and you can't go to mediation, you have to go in front of a judge for a judge to make decisions for you. So now we have further added insult to injury in a way, because now the judge is going to make decisions for you, whereas everybody else gets to make decisions for themselves. So why should we punish the victim of domestic violence and have them give over their decision making authority to a judge? So as long as we believe the victim can exercise self determination, and often that means that there's an attorney, there can be a victim advocate, whatever is.

Wendy Green [00:24:52]:

And they've got to feel safe. They've got to feel safe to say.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:24:55]:

What they want to feel. Yes, they've got to feel safe. They never have to see the perpetrator. They can be in different rooms. They can be in different buildings. They can be on different days. They're not going to sit there like most couples do and negotiate it out. They can be totally separate.

Wendy Green [00:25:12]:

Okay. That makes a difference.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:25:14]:

Yeah.

Wendy Green [00:25:16]:

So one of the other things you had talked about when we first met was that a lot of these gray divorces or late in life divorces happen in second and third marriages. And are there usually prenups in those?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:25:31]:

Occasionally there is, but often there is not.

Wendy Green [00:25:39]:

And what are the advantages and disadvantages of a prenup?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:25:43]:

Well, a prenup is great if everybody is willing to say, yes, this is what we agree to and we're going to follow it. The one problem with prenups is that often the prenup could be 20 years old. And so whatever you wrote in that prenup now no longer applies because things have changed. There's different accounts, there's different houses, there's different businesses. You wrote the prenup when you both worked. Now you both don't work, or one of you works and one of you doesn't. One of you has developed an illness. So that's one problem with prenups.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:26:22]:

The other problem with prenups is just because you have it doesn't mean the other person is going to say, yes, I'm going to follow it. So the other person might say, no, you lied to me at the time of the prenup. This prenup is invalid, and I'm going to try to hire an attorney to invalidate the prenup because you lied. So there was fraud or because I was coerced into signing the prenup? Because I signed it the day before the wedding or whatever other excuse they're going to come up with. People do try to get out of prenups, but I still am a big believer, and I believe that if you're getting married, and especially if you're, this is not a youthful first time marriage. If you're getting married and you're over 50, if this person that you're marrying is not willing to sit down and have this important discussion with you, that should be a red flag. Because right now, while you're in the honeymoon stage of love, if they're not willing to sit down and talk about how this is going to play out, how are you ever going to talk about anything with them later on? What's going to happen when your son asks you to borrow $40,000 for whatever reason? If you can't sit down and have that conversation, it really is a red flag.

Wendy Green [00:27:54]:

And if they come to you for divorce after they have a prenup, does that make it easier? Typically, like I know you talked about, maybe I'm going to invalidate it. But if they're still on the same.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:28:10]:

Page, yes, if they were on the same page and they're on the same page now, it's simple. It's easy. Many of the people that we see, prenup or no, their divorces are really fairly simple and straightforward. They agree in theory on what should happen with their stuff, especially people in their fifty s, sixty s, seventy s, depending on how things have played out. If this is a very long term marriage, they realize that everything they have is a marital asset. And if it's not a really long term marriage, then often they both came into the marriage with their own assets, and they often will agree just to walk out with their own assets.

Wendy Green [00:29:02]:

Yeah. You said something to me that I thought was a little bit surprising the first time we talked. And you said, when they're in their 50s or 60s, if they're not planning on remarrying again, is a divorce really necessary?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:29:24]:

And that's something people have to decide on their own, especially when, if it's been a long term marriage and they believe that everything they have is really joint, then what do they get from getting divorced? Well, now they have one thing, like in Florida, and it's similar in other places, there's some inheritance rights to the spouse. But if I've been married to somebody for 40 years and we just can't stand each other anymore, but I still trust him, right? Maybe I still want him to be my medical surrogate, and then again, maybe not. Maybe I want to make sure I'm divorced from him so that I know that if I'm in end of life situation, he's not going to have any authority to be the one who decides pull the plug or not.

Wendy Green [00:30:34]:

There's a lot of choices. So if you've been married a long time. There's the insurance. There's probably the kids.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:30:40]:

Yes.

Wendy Green [00:30:41]:

The house, the retirement funds.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:30:45]:

Maybe I want to stay married to him because I'm concerned that if we get divorced, his girlfriend will now push him to get married, and then when he dies, part of what he owns goes to her. And we had some clients at one point who, they had some assets, significant assets, and they were going to get divorced and the husband was going to remarry. And he said, oh, no, the new wife, she's not going to get anything because we're going to have a prenup. And I'm like, what? What are you thinking? You can have a prenup today and next week a new prenup, and in the new prenup she's getting, or a postnup, and in the new one she's getting half, which would have meant that on those assets that they were going to continue to own together, the old wife was going to have to deal with the new wife as her new partner on those assets. It can get very complicated.

Wendy Green [00:31:56]:

This is a little unsettling. We all have been believing, I'm sure prenups are for our protection and protecting our assets. And what you're saying is they can be so easily changed or litigated.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:32:15]:

He would have had to agree to a new prenup. Right. Or a postnup. He signs a prenup with her now. I think the deal was all she was going to get was his house. So all the other assets were going to go to the children or the old wife, and that's what the prenup would say. But after a year or two, and maybe he's in poor health, and she decides, no, I think we should have another postnup now, because now I'm your caretaker and I should be entitled to more. Well, that document is going to play out also.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:33:04]:

He could, in a will, leave everything to the new wife. So sometimes people think they can use a prenup, a postnup or a divorce settlement in place of a will, and they can't. These documents are not designed to be in place of a will or a trust. I am often sending people who are older to wills, estates and trust lawyers because I want them to know that what their desire is for their money once they've passed is actually what's going to happen. And if they haven't done the planning with the wills, estates and trust lawyer, often that's not the way it's going to play out.

Wendy Green [00:34:01]:

Yeah. I mean, it's a contract, right? It's a contract. So now you're saying they can change it. Livia says, to remain married, you truly have to trust. Trust that he doesn't empty accounts and effectively takes all your money.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:34:14]:

Yes.

Wendy Green [00:34:16]:

Wow. Okay, well, so when somebody is now considering divorce and they're saying, okay, well, I like this idea of mediation. I don't want it to be all hateful and bitter and angry. What should they look for when they're looking for a mediator?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:34:39]:

Wow. So I think they want somebody with experience, certainly somebody that is local to them. I think they should ask around, ask their friends for recommendations. I think they should talk to somebody. And also, what's the pricing? As mediators, we have an ethical responsibility to send people up front a letter of engagement that explains what the fees and costs are. If they're not clear on what the fees and costs are, that's a red flag. Also, is the mediator overstepping their bounds? And I'll give you an example. I don't think a mediator, and most divorce lawyers will not even create a document called a Quadro, which is used to divide certain types of retirement accounts.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:35:45]:

If the mediator tells you they're going to prepare the quadro, I'm concerned that's not the job of the mediator. The quadro should be prepared by somebody who is an expert in Quadros. Now, many people do not need a quadro. It's only when they're dividing certain retirement accounts. If they're dividing an IRA, they don't need a quadro. But if they're dividing a 401, they need a quadro.

Wendy Green [00:36:19]:

Which was my problem.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:36:21]:

Yes, but that brings me to the story. I said in the beginning, I'll tell you the story later. So I was making a presentation at a library. This goes back years. I was still living in South Florida, as opposed to North Florida, where I am now. And there was a group of us making sort of like a group panel presentation that the library wanted to put on for people getting divorced. And so after the presentation, a couple, probably in their late 60s, comes up and starts telling me how they are doing their divorce themselves. And they mentioned to me that the husband is collecting some kind of military pension.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:37:14]:

But when he started collecting this military pension, he named her as the successor. So when he dies, she continues to get the money. They didn't realize that when they get a divorce, whatever it was becomes null and void. And they, in fact, needed a document. It wasn't a quadro. It was some kind of military pay order. And without that military pay order. When he died, she was getting nothing.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:37:50]:

And so sometimes you really don't want to do it yourself.

Wendy Green [00:37:55]:

Yeah, definitely one of the challenges.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:37:58]:

Yes.

Wendy Green [00:37:58]:

Oh, boy. All right, so lots to talk about. So we talked about long term marriages. We talked about second marriage. We talked about prenups. We talked about you can even do mediation if it's been an abusive marriage. We've talked about reasons why you may not need to get divorced. Is there anything that I've not talked about that you feel like would be really important to bring up today?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:38:31]:

I just want to reiterate that if you're getting divorced and you're over 50 years old, you want to talk to somebody, an attorney who does wills, estates and trusts, because it's a good idea to have a will in place. A will or a trust. The attorney would explain the differences and all those medical surrogate type documents so that if people are using traditional attorneys, that divorce might go on for a year, a year and a half. We don't know what kind of stress, what people are going to be under in that year, a year and a half. I wanted them to make sure that they're prepared if they turn ill over this year, year and a half, or longer, because some divorces do take longer, that it's clear what would happen to their stuff and who is going to be in charge of their medical decisions if they're unable to make them themselves.

Wendy Green [00:39:38]:

Okay, that's good. And one final question I was thinking about. So we write up our document, our agreement, everything with our mediator. Do you file it for us then, or do I take it to the court and file it? How does that work?

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:39:51]:

Well, in my case, we typically will walk over to the courthouse and file it for people just because we're used to going there. So it's not a big deal for us to go and take it over there. But it depends on the mediator. Actually, some mediators will do that. Some mediators won't. We do not electronically file anything here because since we're not acting as the attorney, just the agreement itself, we could file electronically and people can file it themselves electronically, but because we provide that additional service of document preparation, that is not something, I believe, a document. No, this is in Florida. There's no line on that electronic filing.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:40:44]:

I don't want to get, get confuse anybody. But anyway, we take it over to the courthouse. It's part of what we.

Wendy Green [00:40:51]:

All right. And, you know, just FYI, the laws are different in every. So, you know, a lot of what Eleanor was talking about is probably similar in most states, but you still want to check it out and make sure.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:41:07]:

Yes, most states are equitable distribution States. A few states are common law states. Like, you know, we always hear about California being common law state. So the rules are different in every state, but there's a lot of similarities.

Wendy Green [00:06:07]:

Okay. Eleanor has several websites. As I said, she's got her hands in many different facets of this. And so she has one website called TheDivorceCoachInstitute.com where you can find more information. And she also has a website called AFriendlyDivorce.com Imagine that, afriendly divorce.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:41:56]:

So AFriendlyDivorce.com is where we mediate. That talks about the mediation practice and all the mediators on there are in Florida. But TheDivorceCoachInstitute.como is a site where divorce coaches are listed and people can learn also to be a divorce coach. And the intent for that site is that there will be coaches from all over the world. We're in our infancy there on the divorce coach institute. But my hope, because I really believe that having a coach through divorce can really make a difference for people, my hope is that we will eventually be.

Wendy Green [00:42:45]:

Know. I'm a coach. I'm a life coach, not a divorce coach. But I agree because it takes you forward. Instead of dragging you back, looking backwards, coaching takes you forward. So it might be something worth looking into if you are facing a divorce right now. Let me remind you about our sponsors, mycarelink360.Com/ref/boomer

Wendy Green [00:43:16]:

Check out all that their device, which is called the Digital Health Companion. Check out all of what that offers to your loved ones. This is something that you, as the adult child or the adult relative would purchase for your loved one who does not live close and you want to help them with staying connected. Check out roadscholar.org/heyboomer for all of the amazing trips. Come visit and join us in Quebec. Go see the rest of the world. They're in all 50 states, in over 100 countries.

Wendy Green [00:43:59]:

And let me just tell you this, if you want to support what we're doing at Hey, Boomer, we have a couple of ways to do it. You can become a Boomer Believer, and with that you get a monthly visit with one of our guests from the month where we spend some time in that hour talking to them, asking them questions, learning from them. So it's a much more intimate conversation than what you are able to have as a listener. We also have the monthly Boomer Banter, which is a community of boomers and we always have a topic. I facilitate the conversation. We're building friendships, we're building wisdom. We're laughing, we're learning. It's a wonderful, caring community.

Wendy Green [00:44:47]:

So check out buymeacoffee.com/heyboomer0413 to become either a Boomer Banter member or a Boomer Believer. Okay, let me tell you about our guest for next week. Next week we're going to be talking with Susie Rosenstein. And Susie is a master certified life coach, and she's the host of two popular podcasts for midlife women. One is called Women in the middle loving life after 50, and her newest one is women in the middle entrepreneurs. To continue our discussion about relationships, Susie and I are going to explore the challenges and rewards of blending families. We're going to talk about when our children marry and bringing in their new spouses and those traditions from the spouse's families or the fact that our children may go celebrate some holidays with the spouse family and not with us anymore.

Wendy Green [00:45:58]:

We're going to talk about when our siblings marry. And now they may be doing separate things for holidays or they may bring in more people for the family traditions. And then, of course, if we marry or partner up late in life, we are now bringing our long term traditions and our partners long term traditions and all those family intricacies together. So there's potential minefields there and potential wonderful, wonderful connections. So hopefully you will join Susie and I for that next week. Each episode of hey Boomer is an invitation to listen, learn, and imply the wisdom gained from the episode that you just heard to your own life. The path ahead may not always be easy, but it's traveled best with support and shared insights. Eleanor, thank you so much.

Wendy Green [00:47:03]:

This is very, very knowledgeable and great information you shared with us.

Dr. Elinor Robin [00:47:09]:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Wendy Green [00:47:11]:

Yeah. My name is Wendy Green. I am the producer of hay Boomer, and the music I heard at the beginning is from Griffin Honrado. He is a student at the North Carolina University School of the Arts. And my grandson.