Kathi Kulesza is an inspiring leader and speaker with over three decades of experience in the hospitality industry. She has shared her life changing lessons with over 20,000 up and coming leaders at 600 plus events.
In this episode we shared our experiences as Boomer Women in male-dominated workplaces and how we tried to blend in, wore business suits, and hadn’t learned how to be assertive. There is a change with younger women. From the way they dress, to owning their individuality to being more outspoken. This led to a discussion of mentoring and reverse mentoring, because we have much to learn from each generation.
Kathi suggests that approaching the different generations requires an open mindset. Calling people “older” can give the young manager the impression that they are almost expired and therefore no longer useful. Changing the wording to “seasoned” shifts the perspective to someone who is experienced and can still contribute.
Key Takeaways from this episode:
- Try to see the world through the lens of curiosity. In other words, what is the other person thinking of feeling?
- Be more human. You can hold people accountable and still be nice. The question to ask is “how can I help this person?”
- Use “I” messages when communicating with a boss, rather than placing blame. Honesly tell them that you want to help them be successful. Put yourself in their shoes.
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Transcript
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Hello and welcome to Hey, Boomer.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:This is the show for those of us who believe that we are never too old to set another goal
Wendy Green:
Speaker:or dream a new dream.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:My name is Wendy Green and I am your host for Hey Boomer.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And hope you had a good weekend.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:My weekend was busy.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I saw a parade for the Saint Patrick's Day parade a week early.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I went to a movie festival.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I went to a show called Big River, which was a great show about Huckleberry Finn and Joe.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So if you ever get a chance to see it, highly recommend it.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:But today we are going to talk with Kathy Kulesza.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And Kathy has over 30 years of progressive experience in the hospitality industry, and
Wendy Green:
Speaker:she pulls from this experience in her work as a keynote speaker and consultant to help
Wendy Green:
Speaker:supervisors become better listeners.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Become more human centered and as a result, they become better leaders.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Our topic today is multigenerational work environment.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:The ideas we will discuss today will apply not only in the work environment, but also to
Wendy Green:
Speaker:you who may be volunteering or mentoring or even just showing up as a parent or a
Wendy Green:
Speaker:grandparent in your family.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Understanding how different generations approach the world and see the world and
Wendy Green:
Speaker:think about the world, all of those impact how we interact.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So Kathy and I are going to discuss some of that today, and we are going to learn about
Wendy Green:
Speaker:ways to better communicate with the different generations and understand their
Wendy Green:
Speaker:perspectives. But before I bring them on, I always like to remind you to thank our
Wendy Green:
Speaker:sponsor, Road Scholar.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Road Scholar is the leading expert, nonprofit expert in educational travel for those 50 and
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Speaker:beyond and for grandparent trips.
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Speaker:And they travel to all 50 states as well as over 100 countries.
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Speaker:And it is one of my favorite ways to travel.
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Speaker:I have taken several grandparent trips.
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Speaker:I have taken several just road scholar adult trips.
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Speaker:I have two more scheduled this summer.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So check out their sponsor link at Road Scholar.
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Speaker:Org slash.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Hey Boomer, the next time you think about taking a trip, check out Road Scholar first.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I also want to tell you about a couple of free takeaways that I think are super
Wendy Green:
Speaker:important. One would be the vitality assessment.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:The Vitality assessment will give you some insight into whether you are fully vitalized,
Wendy Green:
Speaker:whether you have sustained energy.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:If your tank is half empty or if it's time to really look at your life and say, Hmm,
Wendy Green:
Speaker:maybe I need to do make some changes here.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:It's free to download.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Just go to. Hey Boomer showbiz and click on the Vitality Assessment link and you will
Wendy Green:
Speaker:receive the vitality assessment in your email.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:You can also schedule a 20 minute session for complimentary coaching with me,
Wendy Green:
Speaker:and this also will give you some insights.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:You really will come away from that 20 minutes with some aha moments just because we
Wendy Green:
Speaker:talked. But I also wanted to let you know that this April I am launching two new Hey
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Boomer, what's next group coaching programs?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And the first one will start on Saturday, April the 15th, and that will meet from 930
Wendy Green:
Speaker:to 11 and that goes for six weeks.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:The next one will start on Thursday, April 20th, and that will meet from 5 to 630.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And I'm trying the two different times to see what might work better For those of you
Wendy Green:
Speaker:that would be interested in making a plan coming out of six weeks with a plan for what
Wendy Green:
Speaker:the next six months to a year is going to look like as you transition from full time
Wendy Green:
Speaker:work to whatever is next for you.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So you can go to, hey, Boomer biz slash coaching and just click on the link to
Wendy Green:
Speaker:schedule a 20 minute complimentary session.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And let's talk about what would make you feel better in this next chapter of your
Wendy Green:
Speaker:life. So.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Kathy Kulesza.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Learn the hard way that to be a successful leader, you must be a confident leader.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:As I said, she spent three decades in the hospitality industry, moving up the ranks in
Wendy Green:
Speaker:management training, customer service, loyalty, marketing and executive leadership.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Now she spends her days inspiring her clients and audiences to get out of their own
Wendy Green:
Speaker:way and lead without apologizing.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Kathy has shared these life changing lessons with more than 20,000 up and coming leaders
Wendy Green:
Speaker:at 600 plus in-person and virtual events.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And when she's not on an airplane or in front of an audience, Kathy enjoys spending
Wendy Green:
Speaker:time with her family, especially her nieces, taking walks with her furry little friend
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Sissy, and catching up with friends and family.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And she is happy to do it all in her hometown of Las Vegas.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So let me bring Kathy on so you all can meet her.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Hey, Kathy.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Hello. Hello.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I'm so glad to be here with you, Wendy.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I'm very much looking forward to this conversation.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Thank you.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So let's get started.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And one of the things I wanted to start with, Kathy, is a little bit out of the
Wendy Green:
Speaker:business world.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So when we talked the first time, you mentioned being the oldest child and having,
Wendy Green:
Speaker:you know, older parents and young much younger siblings and and how.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Your leadership lessons that you've learned is helping you communicate across those
Wendy Green:
Speaker:generations. So I'm curious what you have learned that is helping you in the family
Wendy Green:
Speaker:situation.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Yeah, it's it's something I've said quite a bit because my mother is 81 and has no short
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:term memory. So it's put a it's put us I'm I'm the oldest of six and it's had to put us
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:in these situations where we're communicating probably more meaningfully than
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:we have in years.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Right. Because you think about family events, you get together, you get updates on
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:your career, the kids, all the thing.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But, you know, now we're talking about some really important topics related to my mother,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:you know, the financial situation, her health, whether she stays in her home or not.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I've I've said many times that this being the oldest child and the conversations
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:we're having right now has tested everything I've learned about leadership over the last,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:you know, 4 or 5 decades, because it's when you're communicating with family, it's it
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:really strikes home how important it is to try to get it right, you know, because
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:there's I mean, anybody that's going through this, you already know there's a lot of
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:stress around decisions made about your parent.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And each person has their own ideas of what should be done, how we should be doing it.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Not everybody has the same skill sets, you know, as far as emotional intelligence and
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:communication skills.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So it's it's definitely I'm glad that I've had the experience I've had in my life
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:because I'm using everything I've ever learned to be, you know, a good sister, a
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:good daughter, and try to be I feel like the pressure of being the oldest child to be, you
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:know, a really good role model.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But I'm going to be honest with you, I'm not perfect because it's a very emotional topic,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:right? I mean, it's it's a difficult topic.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Yeah. And we don't all agree on everything.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So and we have I have sisters, so there's six of us.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I have sisters who are 18 years younger than me.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So, I mean, there's different generations involved.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And even their children who are, you know, ten, you know, ten, 11 years old, they're in,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:you know, listening and watching and observing.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And then we've got, you know, a couple nephews that are 26, 21.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So, I mean, there's several different generations involved in this.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I think for me, it's it's been, you know, a big center of what I'm dealing with
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:right now and what we're dealing with.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I feel like we weren't prepared for our aging parents because nobody talks about it
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:until you're in it.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Right. And this is probably one of the biggest challenges of the boomers and the Gen
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Xers right now.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I hope we get it right so future generations know what to do with us because.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Yeah, well and that's well, and that is something we have talked about on the show
Wendy Green:
Speaker:before about how to have those conversations with your parents while they're still able to
Wendy Green:
Speaker:have the conversations with you, you know, which is ideally the time.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:But but that's wonderful that your leadership experience is helping you kind of
Wendy Green:
Speaker:be a leader in the family right now, which which is a lot of pressure.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:You're right. Yeah.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I also wanted to say that as boomer women, so I was in the tech field and you were in
Wendy Green:
Speaker:the hospitality industry, both fairly male dominated industries, right?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Yeah. And so we learned to kind of fit in, to not be too outspoken because otherwise you
Wendy Green:
Speaker:were labeled, you know, as a bitch or too aggressive or whatever.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And I'm I'm curious now from what you're seeing, Kathy, in the workplace.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Our younger women, are they taking on those same kinds of outlooks on how they should
Wendy Green:
Speaker:work in the workplace, or are they feeling more self-confident in themselves than we did
Wendy Green:
Speaker:back in the day?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:The the much younger so probably more millennial women from what I've seen and I
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:hate to put people into categories because the reality is we are a blend of all the
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:different influences we have around us.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So I think one thing we should never do is just categorize or generalize.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But I would say from what I've seen from younger women, they're more likely to be a
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:little bit more assertive, more likely to apply for jobs that they're not as ready for,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:like where we would always have to be 100% ready.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I think they're more comfortable being themselves and and and being visible or more
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:visible than we were.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But you're right. Like are we?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I think we talked about this like I was in a room typically.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I was a when I was a general manager, I remember I would go to these general manager
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:meetings and for every ten general managers, two of us were women.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I had the blue suit, the black suit, you know, the the the solid colored shirt.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I would put a little one of those square little scarfs on that kind of look like a
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:tie. And, you know, and back then and it's funny because I tell my sisters about this,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:like in the 80 seconds, women had to wear skirts or dresses like pants were not even
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:allowed. The dress code was you had to wear dresses or skirts and you had to wear nylons.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:That's right. And mostly mostly business suits.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So business suits and yeah, so, you know, so I did I did try to blend in, but I've also
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:had women tell me that their go to method is they try to blend in and I think we have to
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:stop doing that.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It worked for our generation and I think it was almost necessary for survival for our
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:generation because it was so male dominated and it all the bosses were men.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I've only worked for two women in my entire career.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I've had amazing male mentors.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But I think today we are at a point where women it's more acceptable and and more
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:expected that women do speak up and stand out and pull from their personalities and
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:allow allow themselves give themselves permission to be who they are.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But yeah, big differences.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But I think the younger women are going to help us, you know, expand a little bit more
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:when it comes to our personalities and our uniqueness.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So in the work environment, though, if older women learn from the younger women to be more
Wendy Green:
Speaker:outspoken, to assert ourselves, do you think that's perceived in a positive way now?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Uh, so I, you know, I actually think that.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So I'm 61, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So I think being assertive is a learned skill.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I this is my opinion, you know, what opinions are like.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They're like elbows. Everybody has at least two of them.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Uh, you know, we learn communication skills from the people around us.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So I learned how to be passive from my mother, and I learned how to be aggressive
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:from my father.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I learned how to be assertive on the job training.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And, you know, I believe that the one thing that the more seasoned and that's my if
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:you're younger listening to, Hey, Boomer, don't call us older, call us seasoned because
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:it will change your your perspective of us.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But I think the the women that are in our age group probably have learned to be
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:assertive. And if they haven't, they should definitely take some lessons from the younger
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:generations. I know I learned it because I had to in order for me to grow and move into
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:other positions, I had to learn how to be assertive because without being assertive,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:you're not speaking up.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And if you're not heard, you're not seen.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And then if you're not visible, it's hard to get the next position.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But I think women who are in our generation who have not learned how to do that, that
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:should be your priority.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And if you have to learn from somebody who's younger than you, why not do that?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Because you have plenty to offer them.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You have plenty to share with them, your seasoned professional, and you can trade some
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:of the skills you have for some of the skills that they're learning at a younger
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:age.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Which ties me into what I wanted to talk about next.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Because you mentioned you had plenty of male mentors, good mentors.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Are you seeing like reverse mentoring?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:You know, we're we're women in our in our boomer age group are mentoring young people
Wendy Green:
Speaker:in, say, the political realities of a work environment.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And the young women are mentoring the more seasoned or older women in the technology in
Wendy Green:
Speaker:assertiveness and those kinds of things.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So I think we have a lot of work to do in this area because, you know, there still is a
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:lot of, um, comments made.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, in the environments that I'm in, which I do a lot of teaching, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:A lot of courses and coursework.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I hear a lot of complaints from the younger generations about the older people
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:that work for them and how difficult they are to manage.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I hear a lot of complaints from us, more seasoned individuals.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Mostly we don't complain about Gen X.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Typically, people complain about millennials, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I think there's a lot of work to be done in being more open minded and more curious
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:about the other generations.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So I believe the boomers and it's kind of like the the Gen X.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They seem to be a little bit more, um, flexible, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They can flex and relate better to boomers.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They can flex and relate better to the millennials.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It's the it's the boomers and the millennials where there seems to be more
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:tension. So I think the boomers have an opportunity to be more curious and and step
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:away from the idea that the way we do things, the way we look at the world, is the
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:only way because the world is changing and we're not going to stop it.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Right, Right. And when you complain about a millennial now, I'm not a parent.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I'm a dog parent.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I have not birthed any children.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But there's a good chance if you're a boomer, you may have birthed the millennial.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So you are responsible for this generation because you brought them into the world.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And for the millennials, Like my greatest advice to them is, is that same thing?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Just looking at it from a different place is let's not look at the boomers as older,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:because that word alone basically has the connotation that they don't have as much use,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:right? And they're almost expired.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But if you look at the boomers and the people that are older than you as seasoned,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:that completely changes your picture of who that person is.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Seasoning means that they've got experience.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They can still contribute.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So your approach to them alone is going to be different because you're looking at them
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:as somebody that you can still learn from.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I think that's one of the lessons I learned a long time ago, is that when I was
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:younger is my willingness to learn from my staff and my people when I was young was one
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:of the greatest gifts I could give them because it showed that I respected them and
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:their knowledge. Because as a boss, I never really had all the answers.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I just learned how to work with people and relate with people.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And often times I had people working for me that were much smarter than me or they had
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:expertise that I did not have because it's like a puzzle, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:When you're a leader, you're trying to put the pieces together so that you put people
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:around you that make you better because they have skills that you don't have.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Right, Right, right. So both generations can do that, but they have to be curious and
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:willing to learn about the other person and try not to.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And that's where it goes back to don't categorize that person.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Don't look at somebody who's, you know, like, so I'm a young boomer, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I'm at the cusp, you know, 61.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Don't look at people that are 60 and think, oh, they're washed up, dried up, you know,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:because they're not there. This is like, I think, one of the greatest decades and one of
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:the greatest sources of of people that we can put into the workforce because they're
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:going to be loyal. They're going to be hard workers.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, they don't necessarily need to be the boss anymore, but they're less likely to
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:probably quit jobs because they're they have that loyalty mindset.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And if you can find a place for them and develop a relationship with them, which is a
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:core thing, when you're hiring people, then you can have that person working for you
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:probably for another 10 or 15 years because we're not done, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:That's right.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:That's right. We're not done.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:But you know what? You hear so much, Cathy, about the ageism when people are looking for
Wendy Green:
Speaker:jobs again, you know, and they go in and they're 65, even 70, they've got the gray
Wendy Green:
Speaker:hair and the managers, the hiring managers are the millennials, you know, the 30 to 40
Wendy Green:
Speaker:year olds. And they look at that and they get intimidated or they feel like they're
Wendy Green:
Speaker:washed up, like you said.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Um, how do you coach your clients on those kinds of issues?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Well, I think the biggest advice I give to everybody and sorry, that's Sissy, she has a
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:strong opinion about this because she's seven and a half.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So she's so she's 49in human years.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Yeah.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So she's up there, you know, in human years.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So she's she's definitely feeling the pain of not being younger anymore.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So, so you know, my, my advice to everyone is, is treat each person as an individual,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:get to know them because, you know, each person is very different.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So it's funny when I when I think about boomers and then I look at the description of
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:what like a Gen X is, I'm really on that cusp because like, I'm and you're very high
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:tech also, like we're very high tech baby boomers.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Most of my friends, I mean, they would have struggle getting onto a zoom call.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, they certainly wouldn't be able to put people into a breakout room.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They may not be able to get onto camera, you know, cameras.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And they're the people I went to college with.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Right. So so I think it's like you you're right now people are struggling hiring
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:employees. Right.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:There's the maybe the great resignation, which has always been around.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It's not like this is not a new problem.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:People have always, like silently resigned from jobs and quiet quitting.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It's always been going on.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:We're just giving it a name now.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:The struggles we're having right now in the workforce have always been around it just
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:look differently.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:There's always been a challenge to find good people.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It maybe is a little bit more of a struggle now because of the pandemic.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I've had people hit a reset button and rethink what they want to do in their lives.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So, you know, unless you have a plethora of qualified people walking through your front
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:door or coming through your your application process, you should be open to all people
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:that are applying for jobs.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And this happens. It doesn't happen just to age.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It happens to nationality, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I mean, last names are something people have an unconscious bias towards to, you know,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:they're they don't even realize they're doing it, but they're judging people based on
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:their gender, their their their nationality or their diversity, their age.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And as a hiring person, you want to do the best you can to not prejudge anything about
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:that person, you know, age, gender or diversity because you need access to every
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:potential candidate as possible.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So I think it's, you know, do learn how to be a good interviewer, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Learn how to do behavioral interviewing, get to know that person as a human, as a person,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:as a leader in that job, you're filling and be open because and the interesting thing
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:too, is that they might be looking at boomers as well.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, they're only going to be able to work like another five years.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Well, guess what we know about millennials, they only like what do we know about
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:millennials?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Tell me.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Well, they like to stay in jobs only, like people say 18 months.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So. Right.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:If you're you know, we already know millennials like a lot of fast paced change.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They're probably about an 18 month to two year in a position.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Well, if that's a concern for you with baby boomers, well, guess what?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Your own generation is doing that same thing.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So why not give boomers a chance for 1 or 2 years to contribute?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And they bring this you know, they're seasoned professionals.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They're most likely probably more emotionally balanced.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, they've got more work experience.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So they might be able to do a few more tasks, a few more jobs within your
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:organization because they've already been there and done that.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And if they only want to work two more years, who cares?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I mean, that's what millennials are doing also.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So give them a chance, you know?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Um, yeah. So I don't know. I think it's really.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But you know what? Here's the thing.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:We can't change people's mindsets, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They have to be willing to look at their problems in a different way and be open to
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:different solutions.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And so that, you know, that takes curiosity.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It takes it takes being open minded.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It takes stepping back and maybe taking A500 zero foot view of your situation and taking
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:yourself out of the day to day and rethinking the decisions you're making and
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:how you're looking at potential candidates, you know, and just being open minded that the
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:answers may not be the obvious answers that you always found in the past and that just
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:look at each person as an individual and don't judge them based on all the things we
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:typically judge people on which age is.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Right and that's lovely, and that's what they try and teach in the diversity equity and
Wendy Green:
Speaker:inclusion courses.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And you know, hopefully some of it sticks.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:But let's do a couple of scenarios.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Okay? Okay. So so I'm a manager.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I'm 69 and I have some zoomers working for me.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:You know, like sometimes they show up, sometimes they don't.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Sometimes they call in sick when, you know, they're not really sick, you know, when
Wendy Green:
Speaker:they're there, they're, they're do a good job, but they're also have a very
Wendy Green:
Speaker:entrepreneurial mindset, like they want to do it their way.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Yeah. So what's a what's the best approach for me to manage zoomers or young millennials
Wendy Green:
Speaker:in that kind of situation?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Yeah.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So first of all, one thing we know about the younger generations is that their work needs
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:to have meaning.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So we want to make sure they know that they're contributing to something bigger than
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:themselves. And it could even be making sure your organization contributes to something
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:outside. So if you're not already doing work that's good for the community is how do you
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:tie your organization to doing good in the world?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Because you know, they are they like especially the the Gen Z, they are kind of
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:going back to some more of the traditional values of being good citizens of of they're
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:less likely to be the partiers that some of the older generations are.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They're they're they're bringing back some of those traditional values.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:The other thing about the entrepreneurial spirit is so think about what does an
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:entrepreneur need to know how to do.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Right. What skills are they going to need if they really are going to go out and strike
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:out on their own? How about you teach them business skills that will help them be an
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:entrepreneur instead of instead of resisting it?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Why don't you lean into it and say, okay, you want to be an entrepreneur?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:What's your goal? When do you want to have your own business?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:2 or 3 years. Well, let's give you some responsibilities that's going to build your
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:business skills so that you can run a successful business when you're ready to
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:invest in one and lean into what their priorities are in their life instead of
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:resisting it. And who knows, you might actually develop, you know, a Gen Z who
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:continues to contribute that entrepreneurial spirit as they learn how hard it is to have
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:your own business. The money it takes if you want to have a franchise or whatever it is
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:they're thinking, you know, they might stick around an extra year or two because now
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:they're being developed and they're working for an organization that does good work or
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:contributes to the community around them.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, the the the future of the Gen Z's is not written.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Right, right, right.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It's just yeah, we don't know where they're going to end up in three years or four years.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Right? So let's not just say, okay, they're going to work for a year and quit and go do
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:their own thing. We don't know that.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Right. So and and by giving them those kinds of opportunities, Kathy, we're probably
Wendy Green:
Speaker:building more loyalty in them as well, you know, and they feel respected, which I think
Wendy Green:
Speaker:is really important to to the younger generations.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Yeah, good points.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So let's flip it now.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Okay. So I'm a boomer.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I'm 69. I'm starting this new job.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:My boss is 40.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Right. And, you know, I mean, I'm glad that I'm working and feeling like I'm
Wendy Green:
Speaker:contributing, but sometimes.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I just think that they're either micromanaging me or they don't get it.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And, you know, and I'm not sure how to approach them without making them feel
Wendy Green:
Speaker:intimidated or uncomfortable.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:What's your advice on that?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So this is.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:The hardest part for anyone that wants to communicate with the boss.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So I think, first of all, you have to make a decision of, you know, and so one of my
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:favorite books is The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So you have to make a decision on whether or not you want to try to fix it or not, Right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Because fixing it means you have to be open to having a conversation with them that is
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:respectful and assertive and and you run the risk of getting some resistance, right.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So you have to really think through, okay, what do I want and do I want to do the work
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:to develop a relationship with this person who's a younger, you know, and think about
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:myself. When I was in my 40s, you know, I was pretty well established.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I was knowledgeable.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So think about where you were in your 40 seconds.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You worked your butt off.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, you have accepted the fact that this is this is work, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It's not as glamorous as you thought it was going to be.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, you've got responsibilities.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, you've got bills to pay.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You've got demands pulling at you put yourself in their shoes and think, okay, you
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:know, do I want to do the work to develop a better relationship or can I accept the
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:situation as it is, right, accept it for what it is?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And so if you decide you want to do the work to have those those communications, then
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:you've got to pull from every book that you've read about being assertive and
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:communication and and talk to that person.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And the best approach it's so simple is instead of telling them what they're doing,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:like using you language, like you micromanage me, you're always checking in on
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:me. You're hovering, you're like a helicopter boss.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Instead, you just say, Hey, I wanted to share with you.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I just saw Nona. You're 61.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Yes, Nona is is.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You want to say, Look, here's how I want to share with you how I work best.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I want to share with you how I'm feeling, you know, in this job, because I
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:still feel vital and I still want to contribute and I want to make you look better
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:as a boss. And so here's how I can do that best.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:If you if you're able to give me a little autonomy and we can set up maybe a regular
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:schedule of check ins.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So you feel comfortable that I'm doing what you need me to do, I know that with a little
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:autonomy, I can be much more productive and I want to be able to develop a relationship
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:with you where, you know, you can trust me to do the work, and you don't have to feel
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:like you're checking in on me all the time.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So you do it from I language and you tell them how you best work and how they can.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And but here's the other thing is if you aren't committed to making them look good,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:then you should just accept the job for what it is and try not to, because you have to be
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:authentically. You have to want to make them successful as your boss.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Because now you're the employee, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so and that's part of and I think that's what boomers we can bring
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:because we came up with the generation of the bosses, the boss, you do it.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:The boss said, because the boss is the boss.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Now we've evolved.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But the reality is that idea that we had, you know, like my first job was August 18th,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:1978, you know, is, you know, the boss of the boss and they're in charge if you can
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:take that part of who we were and and then and be willing to make your boss successful
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:and help them know how you can make them more successful, you can find a good
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:relationship with them.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And but you have to be not lecturae not judgy because they're already thinking you're
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:like that with them.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So you have to raise that idea, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Because they already think, Oh, this person, it's intimidating because they've got all
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:this life experience and you know, they probably do this job better than me.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So think about what they're thinking about.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You, right?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. No, that's really that's really good advice, I think.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And and you're right.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I mean, if once you're not the boss to try to make your boss look good, that's what you
Wendy Green:
Speaker:wanted your employees to do for you, right?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:If you had an employee that was antagonizing you and and trying to undermine you.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:That was. That never worked.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:No, no, no, no. Made a comment here, which I think is great.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:She says her publisher said, Are you open to feedback?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:That could be another way to approach.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And I think, though, you have to be careful with that in that you're not coming in as the
Wendy Green:
Speaker:parent or the older and wiser.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:You know, you're you're saying feedback so that I can be a better employee.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Yeah.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So it's about and when you use language like I noticed I observed I would probably stay
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:away from the word concerned if you're not the boss.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know I overheard I'm feeling so now when you use I language you use you are opening it
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:up for two way conversation.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:When you say you did this or you're doing that or you're acting as if that is more of
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:an aggressive approach in what that does is is it basically will close down the
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:communication because now the person is going to get defensive because it sounds like
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:you're blaming them.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So when you use I language, you're opening it up for like welcoming and it's a great way
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:to do it is to say you know I'm feeling you could say something like this if you feel
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:like you're being micromanaged instead of saying micromanage, you could say, you know,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I'm I'm feeling as though you may not trust me because of the amount of times that you're
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:checking in on my work.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, are you feeling as if you can't trust me?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Because that's what I'm feeling like that you can't trust me.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So now you're telling them what you're feeling, but you're not telling them it's
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:because of their fault.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You're just asking a question.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And then that gives them an opportunity to say, Oh, no, no, I totally trust you because
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:that person just may not have learned to let go yet, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They may not have learned to fully delegate.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It may be a skill they don't have yet.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So you give them an opportunity to learn about how you feel about their management
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:style in and it may open them up to considering different different ideas or
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:different approaches.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Good advice.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So in your talks, Kathy, you have a topic called Apology Free Leadership.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:What do you mean by that?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So originally I was thinking about us women because we show up and we hesitate to get
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:involved in conversations.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, this is our generation, You know, like you walk into, you know, there's ten
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:people having conversation and two of them are women and eight of them are men.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And it's intimidating.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And it's like, oh, you know, excuse me, I had an idea.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Or you'll go up to somebody and ask them to do something.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, I'm really sorry to ask you for this or somebody will say, you know, Hey, you
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:did a really good job on that.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And you'll be like, Oh, that project, it was no big deal.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And the best analogy I have for this is when they say, Hey, I really love your outfit.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And you're like, Oh, this old thing, I got it at Ross for $10, you know?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So it's like we women, we hesitate to take credit for the hard work that we do.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:We brush it off.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:We we kind of apologize or give disclaimers when we want to give our input.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And, you know, one one piece of advice I have when you're getting credit or somebody
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:complimenting you is that person is taking the time to recognize and acknowledge your
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:work. And when you tell them, Oh, that project not a big deal, you're basically
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:dismissing their like recognition of you and you're telling them almost like they're
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:wrong. And really the best thing you could do is say to that person, Thank you so much
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:for acknowledging that work.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Because you know what? It was a lot of work.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I really I just I'm so grateful that you noticed because I did put a lot into that.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I'm proud of what I did, you know?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But I think as women, we sometimes see pride as arrogance.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But it's not Pride is just pride, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Pride is just, you know, just being okay with the fact that we work our butts off and
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:we contribute.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Now, what I've found is that apology free leadership actually does make sense for men
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:and women. And so although it was it was kind of the birth of it was this idea of how
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:women sometimes show up apologizing for our presence.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Really, what it's about now today is as a leader, if you develop good quality, trusting
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:and respectful relationships with your team, with your direct reports, with your peers,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:when the chips are down and you need to like bark an order out or ask somebody to do
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:something and there's no time to discuss the why, but they know because you have this
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:relationship with them that they will follow you off the edge of a cliff.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You don't have to apologize asking somebody to do something because they they trust you
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:and they know if you're asking that, you're asking for a reason.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And they are not as like, um, not as likely to be like, oh, gosh, here she goes again.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, because they trust you and they know, you know, if you're having a bad moment
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:that overall, most of the time you're a really great boss.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So it just gives you a little bit more space to have a bad day or to be able to give an
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:order or ask something of somebody when there is no time to explain it all and
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:they'll just do it because of that relationship you have with them.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So apologies for leadership is leading in a way that you don't have to apologize every
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:time you ask somebody to do something or, you know, they they know that normally you're
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:a really great boss. And today you must have like, had some bad traffic or you spilled
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:your coffee on your lap.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And, you know, overall, you're a great person.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So it's not having to apologize every time.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So would you apologize after that, though?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I had a bad day.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:I yelled at you to do that.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:It's not never apologizing.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:No.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And actually, one of the most powerful things we can do and I don't remember what decade I
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:learned this in, but it's like a super it's like a magic wand is when you actually admit
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:when you screwed up to somebody and you say, look.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And this is something also I think I learned from Stephen Covey is the willingness to
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:accept responsibility for your actions and eventually you want to control your response
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:to things. But let's be honest, you know, you didn't eat breakfast traffic was bad.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You're late for a meeting.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, you walk in the door and I was in hospitality.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You get a guest complaint the second you walk in the door.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Three people called out sick, you know, and you don't feel well, you know, I mean, not
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:everything's always great.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And so you're having a bad day.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And you do treat somebody in a way that, you know, you didn't control your response to a
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:situation. It was like the last, you know, the straw that broke the camel's back, the
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:ability and willingness to go to that person and say, you know what, I'm so sorry.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I know I was short with you earlier.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, I should not have treated you like that.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I really apologize.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You deserve better.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:That is like magic.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But not everybody's willing to do that.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Right? But if you're willing to do that, it can it can really be the solution to having
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:those trusting relationships, because now the person knows that you don't really mean
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:to do that. It's just, you know, I'm just I had a bad morning and I'm sorry you got my
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:wrath. And that wasn't fair.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And please forgive me for that.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So, yeah, you still need to apologize.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It doesn't mean you don't apologize.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:It just means that more times than not, you can lead without having to ask permission or
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:apologize for giving somebody some crappy piece of work to do.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, and because you're leading with with strong relationships and with integrity
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:and you're somebody that people trust.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Yeah.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Makes a lot of sense.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So takeaways we've talked about like intergenerational, we've talked about being a
Wendy Green:
Speaker:leader. We've talked about leading both ways.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:What would be 2 or 3 takeaways that you would like to leave the audience with today,
Wendy Green:
Speaker:working from boomers to Zoomers.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So I think and I learned this from my nieces is when you look at children, they look at
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:the world through lenses that have no preconceived ideas.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:They are just curious about everything.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And, you know, the age of 61, I know a lot.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And sometimes I look at the lenses that I have created through a lifetime of
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:experiences. But when I sit with them, like they just see the world all as new, right?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So if you can try to take off your lenses, right, and and look at the world through that
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:lens of curiosity and don't assume you know why something's happening, but start to ask,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:you know, what's going on here, you know, And instead of judging the person, think
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:think. The question you want to ask is what's happening with that person right now?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:That this is how they're showing up?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And if you're a leader, your responsibility is to help put them in a position where they
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:can contribute more greatly and they can be more successful.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And, you know, as a leader, if somebody is failing on your team, it's probably something
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:that you can influence so own the results that that person's getting.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So I think curiosity is a number one thing.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I and I think the other thing I like to say is just being a little bit more human.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:I think sometimes what I hear from managers is supervisors and leaders and more managers,
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:supervisors is that they're they're worried about being too nice.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And I think actually that's something you can be hold people accountable and you can be
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:nice, You can be a human and hold people accountable.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So don't think that managing means you're not human.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:So we have these humans that have been through.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:We're in a three year anniversary, right, of the greatest probably impact of our
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:generation on work and life and choices.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:You know, look at the human first and ask yourself, how can I help that human?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And when you do that, they're going to think, how can I help my boss be more
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:successful? Um, that's only two.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Is that good? Two takeaways.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:That's we know.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:That's brilliant. Actually, because curiosity, I think, underpins everything that
Wendy Green:
Speaker:you've talked about, being curious about why they are the way they are, why you are the
Wendy Green:
Speaker:way they are. You are, you know, look at your own internal biases too, and listening,
Wendy Green:
Speaker:being human. Yeah.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And I think that is hard for especially for new managers a lot of times because they
Wendy Green:
Speaker:think, you know, they can't be their friend anymore.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Right? So how can I be nice?
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But and I have to know everything.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:But you don't. You don't.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:That's great. Well, Kathy, this has been such a great conversation.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Thank you so much.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Let me show people how they could get in touch with you if they have questions, if
Wendy Green:
Speaker:they want to ask you to come consult with them.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:If they want you to come speak to an organization they have, you can email Kathy
Wendy Green:
Speaker:at Kathy. Kathy at Kathy speaks.com and she has a website of the same name Kathy
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Kathy speaks.com so check her out at both places and show her some love.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Invite her to come speak.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So thanks, Kathy.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Thank you.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:Wendy. I love what you're doing here.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And us boomers need people like you out leading the way so we can continue to
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:contribute so meaningfully, you know, because we are the generation that's going to
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:help support the newer generations to be able to do their best work.
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:And so we have to show up, you know, and take all the advice and all the wisdom that
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:you're sharing with all your guests so that we can help lift them up because they are the
Kathi Kulesza:
Speaker:future.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Yes, they are. Thank you, Kathy.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Um, let me just remind all of you that are listening about the vitality assessment that
Wendy Green:
Speaker:you can download from the Hey Boomer Biz website and how you can also, I told you I
Wendy Green:
Speaker:have the two new cohorts coming up in April for the what's next coaching.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So if you are struggling.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Dealing with figuring out what you're going to do next and how you're going to continue
Wendy Green:
Speaker:to contribute. Because like Kathy said, we still have a big responsibility to the
Wendy Green:
Speaker:younger generation too, and contributing to our community.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So check in with, Hey, Boomer Biz slash coaching and schedule a complimentary call.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Let's just chat about what the next chapter might look like for you.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And finally, do not forget our sponsor road scholar.org/hey Boomer, they love it when
Wendy Green:
Speaker:they see the slash hey Boomer because it lets them know that we're talking about them
Wendy Green:
Speaker:and that we're promoting them.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So please go ahead and check out road scholar.org/hey Boomer.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So next week we're staying on an intergenerational theme next week, but next
Wendy Green:
Speaker:week we're going to be talking to two organizations who are passionate about
Wendy Green:
Speaker:climate action.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:The first one is an impact campaign called Can You Hear Us?
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And it was inspired by the I am Greta, you know, Greta Thunberg to ignite collective
Wendy Green:
Speaker:climate action.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:They mobilize intergenerational communities to reframe our relationship with each other
Wendy Green:
Speaker:and with the planet.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And the other organization that will be joining us is called Elders Climate Action
Wendy Green:
Speaker:Org, and that's an organization of thousands of elder climate activists all committed to a
Wendy Green:
Speaker:nonpartisan effort to end the climate crisis and build a just and sustainable future for
Wendy Green:
Speaker:our children, our grandchildren, and for all children.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:So it should be a really interesting conversation.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And I always like to leave you with the belief that we can all live with passion,
Wendy Green:
Speaker:live with relevance, and live with courage.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:And remember that you are never too old to set another goal or dream a new dream.
Wendy Green:
Speaker:My name is Wendy Green, and this has been.