Paws for Thought: Why Dogs are more than just Pets

People have some very specific ideas about their dogs.

Some people want them to be indoor pets, some people think they should be outdoor pets.

Some people prefer big dogs, some people like little dogs.

Sometimes there's a discussion or argument about do dogs really have feelings?

Do we anthropomorphize them?

So we're gonna dig into all of that.

But when I was growing up, we had an amazing dog.

And I'm sure most dog owners will tell you their dog is amazing.

So our dog was a rescue.

He looked like a shaggy sheep dog.

They told us he was.

Probably had a lot of puli in him.

I had never heard of that kind of dog before.

And we named him Curly.

And Curly loved us so much.

And we loved him so much.

He was really a member of the family and he used to love to go on bike rides.

When my dad would ride his bike, he would run along.

He loved playing in the lake with us.

He even let us play tackle football with him.

Poor puppy.

But he was so, so special.

And he definitely had feelings.

I am in that camp.

Dogs have feelings.

He would be thrilled to see us.

He would feel like such remorse if we scolded him.

So it was very obvious to to us that he had feelings.

Now I have a cat, Pepper, that I am very connected to.

She and I became even closer during the pandemic and I love her immensely.

And I know that she loves me, but not in the same way that Curly loved us.

Right.

So I know that when Pepper dies, I'm going to be devastated, and I hope that's many years off.

She's only eight.

But the bond with a cat is not the same as the bond with the dog.

So please don't tell Pepper this though.

Don't tell her I said this.

So all this month we've been exploring relationships and their importance as we age.

And in today's episode, we're going to talk about the bond between humans and their dogs.

There is science behind why the connection is so strong, and we'll explore that.

We will also learn about how dogs have been important health companions for their owners.

And we're going to uncover some of the ways a dog can be an important companion for us as we age and what we need to think about to be successful dog owners and dog lovers.

Welcome to Boomer Banter, the podcast where we have real talk about aging.

Well, my name is Wendy Green and I am your host and my guest today is Stacy Colino.

Stacy is an award winning writer specializing in science, health and psychological issues.

Her work has appeared in the Washington Post Health and wellness sections and in dozens of national magazines, including Prevention magazine, I just found out today.

She is the co author of numerous books, including the Purest Bond, Understanding the Human Canine Connection, which is the book we're going to base this conversation on today and the book that drew me to her.

Stacy grew up with dogs.

First she had Roscoe, who was a black poodle that looked more like a shaggy sheep dog.

Then she had Bowser, a Pooley, which is what they told us Curly was probably most likely.

And during Stacy's adult life she has had three dogs, all rescues.

Stacy went to Oberlin College in Ohio for her undergraduate work and then graduate school in journalism at Northwestern.

She has two grown sons and a shepherd lab mixed named Sadie.

And before I bring Stacy on, I want to INV invite you to join the Boomer Banter Community.

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Twice a month we get together virtually the second Tuesday of the month.

We talk about some of the challenges we face as we age.

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So join me in welcoming Stacy Colino to the Boomer Banter.

Hi Stacy.

Hi Wendy.

Thanks for having me.

I'm so glad that you were able to make this work in your schedule.

So I wanted to start with some of the sayings that we hear about our relationship with dogs.

Things like dogs are man's best friend or woman's, or be the person your dog thinks you are or Happiness is a warm puppy.

So what's behind the emotional connection we develop with our dogs?

Well, it's very real.

I'll start with that.

And it happens on multiple levels.

Psychologically, socially, physically, biologically.

Something that people don't know is that when you look into your beloved dog's eyes or sit on the floor and pet them, you both experience a surge of oxytocin, which is often called the love hormone or the bonding hormone.

It's what's released when mothers nurse their babies or when couples hug each other.

And you and your dog both get that, and it creates this warm, fuzzy feeling inside you, but it also facilitates the bond between you.

So it really is pretty deep.

Yeah.

I read a report by the National Library of Medicine, and they noted that 43% of adults aged 60 and older reported feeling lonely at times.

In your book the Purest Bond, you talk about the social capital that dogs can provide.

What do you mean by that, Stacy?

Well, in the community, dogs serve as a social facilitator, if you will.

People often know dogs names in the neighborhood, and they may not know the owner's names.

I know that that's true in my case.

But it brings people together conversationally.

You know, it's an immediate and always ready conversation point.

Somebody can ask about your dog, what breed it is, what, what its name is, how long you've had it, and all this, and all of a sudden you strike up a conversation and a connection.

It creates community cohesion.

There have even been some studies that have found that communities that have a lot of dogs have lower crime rates because it's not that every household has a dog and the dog barks and scares away, you know, a burglar.

It's that it just makes it less appealing for criminals to come to that neighborhood because there is a sense of community and sort of a community watch element going on.

So that's pretty interesting.

And people meet each other and become friends through their dogs.

I just met some neighbors yesterday who have probably lived down the street from me for 20 years, but I didn't know them.

And they had their little dog out in front, and he came up to me and wanted me to pet him, and we started talking.

And then I gave them a copy of the book because just paperback, we just hit it off over dogs and, you know, it's a.

It's a common interest.

So whether you have a dog or not, if you do have a dog, it's obviously more of a common interest.

But even if you like a dog, if you don't have one, there's something to talk about and something to connect you.

Yeah.

And you see people take their dogs everywhere, you know, you see, Right, Yep.

So is that another social connection?

Like you take your dog to the restaurant, you take your dog to the park or the dog park or.

I mean, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yesterday I went to my local community center to vote and there were a bunch of people in there who had their dogs with them.

So dogs are now accompanying people to vote.

Yeah, I think more, more establishments are becoming dog friendly.

Yes, I think that's true.

Maybe not so much inside, but certainly like on their patios and that kind of thing.

So what do people have to be cautious of though?

I mean, some dogs are not as welcoming of a stranger reaching out to them as other dogs.

That's absolutely true.

I think it's important to know your dog and know how your dog is going to respond in these situations.

And some dogs may be perfectly friendly to other people, but if there's another dog in that setting, they might get all ratcheted up and create commotion and chaos that's not wanted.

Yeah.

So you have to be the one that keeps a watch on that if somebody's coming up to you or to your dog.

Absolutely, yeah.

To be able to say, yeah, that's probably good, thank you for liking my.

Dog, but maybe not give my dog some space, please.

Also in your book, Stacy, you say that dog ownership is referred to in the medical literature as a public health interest because it has the potential to promote health boosting physical activity.

So public health interest, what does that mean, in your opinion?

So as most of us realize most people are not getting the level of physical activity or exercise that the Surgeon General and the government is telling us that we should.

And the idea behind that public health recommendation is that if you have a dog, even if you don't do hardcore exercise, you need to take your dog for walks multiple times a day and get out and about.

And that alone increases the level of physical activity, which is beneficial for both of you in terms of disease prevention, weight control, mood boosting benefits, and so on.

And so there's sort of no physical downside or health related downside there.

Yeah.

So getting out and moving around, but.

And here I'm going to play the devil's advocate to that.

Okay.

With a cat, I don't have to go out when the weather is crappy and cold and rainy and snowy.

And so how do you, how do you feel good about getting out when the weather's so bad?

Well, it's interesting.

Studies have actually found that a lot of people feel good about it because they're doing it for this creature they love.

And so it's not for them, but they get sort of a side benefit, a collateral Benefit from it.

But they're doing it out of love for their beloved furry friend.

That's a good thing.

And you know what?

Let's face it, Wendy.

Some dogs, including my own, if it's pouring rain outside, she's not interested in going for a long walk.

She'll go for a block, turn around and come home, do her business, and we're done.

And that's fine with me.

Yeah, that would be fine with me, too.

I know.

Thank you, mom, for getting me out, but that's enough.

So with the indoor outdoor thing, do you have some thoughts about, you know, people that say dogs should only be kept outdoors as opposed to people that want to keep their dogs indoors?

I actually don't know anybody who has that philosophy.

So, I mean, maybe out in the country there are people.

Yeah, yeah.

And hunting dogs and things.

True.

Yeah, true.

Personally, I couldn't do it.

I think you have to have special housing if you're going to do it responsibly.

Definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I want to take a brief moment here to pause and talk about my walk to and Alzheimer's team.

We are walking to try to make a difference in the care that Alzheimer's patients receive and that the Alzheimer's caregivers receive.

And so we have set a goal to raise $5,000 for our walk to End Alzheimer's team, the Boomer Banter team.

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And if you would like to help end this horrible disease and help people that have it, we would greatly appreciate your support.

You can make a donation to our Walk to ends alzheimer's team@act.alz.org goto heyboomer and I will include that in the show.

Notes back to Stacy Colino, who is our guest today.

And I want to talk to you, Stacy, about some of the amazing stories about some of the dogs that you've included in your book.

Like some of the stories of dogs recognizing an illness or an emergency in their owner even before sometimes the owner even knew there was a problem.

Yeah, it's really pretty amazing.

And a big part of that comes from the fact that dogs are so attentive to us that they notice little subtle changes, Changes in us before we might.

They're very attentive to us in terms of their hearing, but even more so in terms of their sense of smell.

A dog's sense of smell is exponentially more keen.

Keener than a human's is.

I actually had to look this up because I don't remember it off the top of my head.

But dogs have 200 million to 1 billion olfactory receptors in their nasal cavities, depending on the breed, compared to approximately 6 million in people.

They also have a particular olfactory organ called Jacob's organ, that we don't have.

But as a result of these anatomical differences, scientists estimate that dogs can smell 10,000 to 100,000 times better than people can.

So what this means in terms of detecting diseases is they can detect changes in our exhalations from our body, compounds that come out in our breath or body odor.

Even if it's not like a really obvious odor, it's a change in our body smell.

So they can be attuned to all these chemical changes that we experience that we wouldn't notice or that our other family members wouldn't notice.

And sometimes that can alert them to signs of a disease or signs of a disease flare up.

So tell me about an example where that has happened.

So there was one story that we got from somebody who was a grandmother who would take care of her granddog sometimes, and the dog was just obsessed with a particular area on one of her feet, and she couldn't figure out what was going on with this.

And so.

And the dog would sort of like touch it and smell it and lick it and do all these different things.

So finally she went to the doctor and found out that she had skin cancer.

In that?

Yes, on that area on her foot.

Wow, that's pretty amazing.

There are other stories about dogs being able to detect seizures and people who have epilepsy before they happen.

And those trained dogs can keep the person safe by helping them get down on the floor and just keeping them steady so that they don't bump into anything and hurt themselves.

There was a story from somebody that my co author knew about how his dog, who was normally very mild mannered and pretty mellow, was jumping on him during the night and kind of like pulsing on his chest, and he couldn't figure out what the heck was going on.

There's a guy in his 60s, and he would was just like thinking the dog was being a pest and shooing it away at first.

But this happened like multiple times over the span of seven to ten days.

And finally he decided to go to the doctor and have it checked out.

And it turned out he was having heart problems.

And in the middle of a stress test at the doctor, he had a heart attack and had to be airlifted to a hospital.

So the dog was probably detecting changes in the guy's breathing or maybe he had very bad sleep apnea.

And he was pausing in his breathing, and he didn't realize it, but the dog did.

So it was almost like the dog was trying to perform doggy cpr.

Yeah, sounds like that.

Wow.

So, fortunately, those people knew enough to say, wow, the dog is kind of alerting me to something.

I better check this out.

Exactly.

Huh.

Now, there's also some stories in your book about people that have been injured and how the dogs have helped them with their recovery besides just being, you know, that loving companion.

Can you tell me about some of that?

Well, it happens on different levels.

So there are some studies that have found that people who have had heart attacks who go for cardiac rehab, those people tend to do better if they have a dog, and it's not just because they might get more exercise in their spare time.

There's just some correlation there.

In addition, as we talked about before, dogs, having a dog can be a motivator for getting up and out when you don't feel like it.

And so there were some people who had pretty bad injuries from, like, a car accident or just various causes who were just, like, not feeling good through the rehab process or through physical therapy.

But again, the MO became, I'm going to do this for my dog.

And that's what got them off the couch and outside and moving, and then they benefited.

Yeah.

I think there was one where you said the person had a very serious injury, was very depressed, and the dog helped them through some of the rehab, and then they had another serious injury.

Yeah.

And the dog, again, helped them through that rehab.

But I think you also have to think about who's going to take care of your dog if you're not there.

Like, if you've been injured in rehab.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

You need a contingency plan.

Yeah.

So, I mean, if you live alone, what are.

What are some of your thoughts about that?

Do you take them?

Well, I.

I guess I'm also thinking, Stacy, you know, like, so many people then just give the dog back to the pound or to.

Right.

And that.

I mean, these are emotional, connected beings.

That's got to be hard on the dog.

Yeah.

That's how we got our current dog, Sadie.

She was with a family in West Virginia, and we got her when she was either 5 or 6 years old.

We're not 100.

Sure.

And they gave her to their local pound.

And the reason they wrote on the form was moving.

And I was so outraged.

I was like, if you love this dog, could you really not have found another home for the dog?

I mean, just to surrender it to the pound.

But along those lines, I think that if you have a dog, it's a really good idea to talk to friends or family members.

Like if something happens to me, would you be willing to take my dog and just have like a plan B or a plan C?

I think that's so important.

So let's talk about the benefits of having a dog as an older person.

Well, some of the research has found that it basically gives people various sort of organizational or structural elements to their lives.

So for some people it might be an organizing principle for their schedules.

Like the dog gets them up at a certain time of day and then there's breakfast and then a walk and times to go out, to go potty or just to go out for walks.

And it's a, it gives a schedule and a structure to the, to their day.

For others, it's a great source of companionship and ready affection and also playtime.

I mean, having a dog is joyful.

We all need that, I think, at every age.

But when you get older and if you retire, you may not have as many sources for that joy and that pleasure.

And a dog can give it.

Yeah.

I'm seeing some wonderful comments since we are live for this.

Talking about the unconditional love being so real and genuine.

Yep.

Feeling happy when you're looking at a.

Dog'S face, when your dog is smiling in your face, it's impossible to feel bad.

And they do smile, don't they?

They do.

My girl is a big smiler and I can't not smile when I look at her smiling.

And they feel bad when they know they've done something wrong too, don't they?

Yeah.

And then I remember when with Curly, I used to feel so sad if they, if, if Curly got punished and she would kind of sulk away.

I'm like, oh, poor baby.

Yeah, they want to please us.

They do want to please us.

Yeah.

So it.

As an older person, if I'm thinking about getting a dog, don't tell Pepper.

If I'm.

I know, right?

If I'm thinking about getting a dog, what are the things I need to consider?

Like big dog, small dog, old dog, young dog, you know, those kinds of things.

Definitely those elements.

And also I would say personality and energy level.

If you don't want to take multiple walks a day, don't get a high energy dog.

You don't get a Jack Russell.

Yeah.

I mean, I have some friends who are in their 60s who have relatively new dogs and their dogs have so much energy, they take them on multiple 2 to 5 mile walks per day.

Wow.

You need to sort of know that going in like that this is something your dog might need because otherwise the dog is kind of bouncing off the walls with too much energy and misbehaves.

That's when trouble comes in.

So you have to know what you're getting into.

I also know people who have ended up adopting a dog, a puppy that was surrendered by.

I know two people that have had this experience surrendered by older couples.

And by older couples, I mean people in their 80s who thought, oh, let's get a puppy.

It'll be really fun.

It'll bring some, like, vibrancy and excitement into our home and that kind of thing.

Oh, they just did not think that through because there was a lot of training to do for the puppy.

You know, in terms of behavior, in terms of house training, and also just the energy level.

It was just sheer chaos.

And in both cases, I think the couples kept the puppy for a maximum of two weeks.

Oh, gosh.

Yeah.

So it, you know, you really have to think through what you're getting into.

So having said that, like, for older people, you may want to consider, if you want a dog, maybe get an older dog.

You know, there are so many dogs at shelters and rescue organizations who have been surrendered for one reason or another.

And they're good dogs.

I mean, we got Sadie, as I said, when she was five or six years old, because people were moving.

And she has just been the best dog, loves everybody in the family.

She has not touched wood, had ace.

Well, there she is.

She's not had.

Hi, Sadie.

Had a single accident in our house in four years.

She has not destroyed anything.

She is a really good dog and pretty low maintenance.

And so did you have to do any special training with her?

No, I mean, we.

She wasn't used to walking on a leash, probably because she grew up in West Virginia, maybe on a farm.

So we had to do some work with her in terms of walking well on a leash, but otherwise, no.

Okay.

And, and, and what about, you know, I'm seeing some comments about the breeds, but what about the care and feeding of a dog and the maintenance of a dog?

You know, as an older person, what do you need to think about there?

I can't imagine my mother sticking a dog in the bathtub.

Right.

Yeah.

So that's an important point.

You need to think about, like, how often this dog will need to be bathed, what kind of shedding the dog is going to do, like, what kind of care and maintenance you'll need for that.

So if you don't want to do a lot of dog bathing, maybe a lab is a good thing to do.

A shorter haired dog and you know, it's good to brush them.

But I don't bathe Sadie very often and it's not because I'm a bad dog mom, she just doesn't need it.

So I'll brush her, I'll brush her teeth, but you know, just sort of have a sense of what's going to be required.

And there's some good resources that I know you're going to share later where you can find that, like the American Kennel Club and the aspca, they have all these different blogs about dog breeds and their traits and what's required of their care and that kind of thing.

And it would be good to do a little research and reading before you go looking at a dog.

Yeah, because I think as you're saying, you know, you have to know, you have to know your own abilities.

Right.

Like do you get a big 60 pound dog?

Are you going to be able to walk that dog on a leash?

Are you going to have to do special training to be able to do that?

Do you need special food?

How often do they want to eat?

You know, all of these things you need to think about.

Yeah.

So one of the things that was important to me, it's always been important to me with all three dogs is I want to be able to pick up my dog if I need to.

And so all of our dogs have been between 50 and 60 pounds and I can pick them up and put them in the car if they're injured or, you know, that kind of thing.

I can't carry them for blocks but I can pick them up and that's important.

So you know, think about things like that.

And of course ahead of time you need to think about how you're going to care for this dog in your home where they're going to sleep.

Financially, dogs are expensive.

You have to consider their vet care, their food, you know, everything.

And so you'll want to sort of have a sense of what that's going to cost you going in.

Oh, that's a good point.

I know my kids have spent a fortune on like hip replacements and stuff.

Yeah.

For dogs.

Yeah.

So as we age, our dogs age, but they age more rapidly than we age, which is so hard when you, I mean they're a member of the family.

Right.

And so percent yeah, they are.

And, and so what are some of the things that we need to think about if we are taking care of an older dog, a senior dog.

Well, you may need to adjust their diet with the help of your vet towards one that's like less processed and more anti inflammatory.

You may need to start them on supplements.

As I mentioned, Sadie is either 9 or 10.

We're not sure.

She, for a while she would look very stiff in the mornings, just like getting out of her bed and like her first few steps.

And we take her to a holistic vet who practices both eastern and western medicine.

And he recommended putting her on some joint supplements.

Nothing major.

It's a little capsule.

We break it open and sprinkle it on our food.

It doesn't bother a bit.

Twice a day.

And she has not looked stiff in a long time.

Oh, isn't that great?

Yeah, it's really great.

But also think about like the kinds of, the kind of medical care you're going to want to give your dog and also sort of what you're willing to do as they get older.

One of the things that people kind of don't anticipate is as a dog gets older, some of your favorite activities that you did together may fall by the wayside.

You know, if you were really attached to going for long, beautiful walks with your dog and suddenly your dog has a hip issue, you might have to go for shorter walks.

If that was something that you did to bond or you played fetch in the backyard or played ball.

As they get older, they may not be able to do that as much.

So you need to find new rituals.

Yeah.

And how hard it is when you have to make that decision, that they have outlived their quality of life.

Yes.

That's excruciating.

Excruciating.

Stacy and I just recently, I didn't even know about this.

Just recently heard that a vet will come to your home to administer that end of life care.

We did that with Sadie's predecessor, Inky.

He developed a hemangiosarcoma, which is a very aggressive cancer in his abdomen.

And he was basically bleeding internally.

Gosh.

And there was just no way to save him.

And so he got this diagnosis at like midnight on a Saturday night at the.

An emergency vet.

And they kept him overnight and they recommended humane euthanasia.

And I said I want to bring him home for that.

So we did.

And I found a vet who came and the whole family was here and he passed in our dining room.

I had never heard of that before.

I had always heard you had to take them to the vet, which always was so clinical.

You know, they're laying out on that Metal table.

And so there's a lot more humane treatment of dogs these days, and I'm glad to hear that.

And training too.

You told me that you don't always have to take your dog to a training class, that you can have a trainer come and work with you and your dog.

And how does that work?

So part of that kind of training is to train you as well as the dog because you need to know the right instructions, the right prompts and cues to give your dog to get your dog to do what you want them to do.

So different trainers, you use different techniques.

Some use like a clicker, which I have never really fully understood, to prompt a dog to do a certain thing.

Others use food reward systems.

But the thing that is now universally agreed upon is that punitive practices are not good.

They do not do, they do not achieve what you want them to, and they have the potential to harm the bond between you and your dog.

So.

But there's a lot you can learn online through training videos as a starting point.

And then also, most vets will recommend a trainer in your area who will work with you and your dog.

And in my neighborhood, I see a couple of the same people who come around in the same types of cars and they have yellow shirts and sometimes they train a dog one on one with the owner and sometimes they take a group of dogs out on walks and teach them how to behave with each other on a group walk.

Now, you didn't talk about this in your book.

I don't remember saying it anyway.

But a lot of people I know these days are crating their dogs when they go out for several hours.

We never did that.

So I'm curious about that.

Why people, their dogs?

We did that early on until our dogs sort of knew the rules of good behavior when we're out.

Because some of our previous dogs did destroy things, chew things up out of anxiety, not because they were trying to be bad.

And so I think crating is a good, can be a good training tool.

But I think ideally, I mean, in my opinion, if you've got a well behaved dog, you don't need to do that all the time.

And there are things you can do for anxiety like those thunder vests and.

Rescue remedies, homeopathic remedies.

My previous dog, Inky, was just a basket case when it was time for fireworks and thunder and you name it.

And we found something called a rescue remedy, which is a homeopathic thing that we could put right in his water or just drop in his mouth.

And it Would help him kind of mellow out just a little bit.

Yeah.

Their dogs on Prozac and they're.

Is that right?

Yeah, yeah, I've heard of that.

Rescue remedy.

And see, Amy talks about a pet sitter.

Yep.

I think pet sitters as opposed to a kenneling a dog.

Right.

They're much happier if they're at home, aren't they?

Well, they are, but the other thing is we send Sadie out to the country to a.

It's not a kennel.

We call it the dog camp.

And you have to.

You basically have to have an audition to make sure you're a well behaved dog that can get really other dogs.

And the dogs are free.

They are outside playing all day long and if it's rainy, they have like kind of a big all purpose room where they can play.

And so it's a really social time for her, which is great.

She gets much more social time there than she does in her regular life.

And so that's good.

She comes back exhausted and horse because she's been barking so much, but she has a good time there.

It sounds like doggy camp.

That's fun.

Yeah, yeah.

So do you have.

Let me just mention the name of your book again.

It's called the Purest Bond and it is understanding the human canine connection.

And it.

Would you like me to show the COVID of it?

You could, sure.

It is based on science and emotion.

A lot of good stories in there.

So if you are a dog lover or considering getting a dog, I think it's a good read.

But I'm wondering if you have two or three takeaways that you would like to leave with the group about, particularly the, you know, having a dog as a.

As a person over 60.

Well, I think it can be a very meaningful relationship.

One of the things that was really interesting to me is how people characterize their relationship with their dogs.

Some people see it as sort of like a parent child dynamic.

Other people see it as like a trusted companion kind of relationship.

I mean, they're all these different qualities and you can kind of have your own mashup to some extent and it can evolve over time.

And one of the greatest things about dogs is they're so incredibly loyal and loving.

And if you have a strong bond with your dog and you have a well behaved dog.

I saw somebody earlier say we take care of them and we.

And they take care of us.

And that ends up being so true on so many levels.

It's just a beautiful thing.

And there are things you can learn from your dog, too, about how to be in the world and how to enjoy things, how to be mindful and be in the here and now.

And I think those are all useful reminders.

I love that.

I, I loved that comment.

We take care of them, they take care of us.

And I think you're right.

You know, if we could see the world through the eyes of a dog.

Yeah, they see it.

Most well loved dogs see it with so much joy and gratitude.

Yeah.

You really do.

Yeah.

Thank you, Stacy, for what you shared for us today.

As Stacy said, I'm going to share some links in the show notes.

We talk.

She talked about the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals that has some good articles on pet care.

And the American Kennel Club also offers great info about different breeds and expert advice on dog training, nutrition, and other aspects of dog care.

And then she gave me the name of somebody named Mark beck.

He's a PhD and they interviewed him for the book and he writes a blog on animal emotions for Psychology Today.

So all of those will be in the show notes.

I will also drop them into Facebook and LinkedIn for those of you watching from there.

And next month, we're going to talk about challenging ageism and our perception of aging.

So on November 4, we're welcoming back Jeanette Liardi.

Jeanette is a social gerontologist, community educator, writer, aging wellness leader, and the author of a new book titled Aging Sideways, Changing Our Perception on Getting Older.

So be sure to tune in for that.

And I and I think that's going to be an interesting conversation for sure.

I also wanted to encourage you to join our Boomer believers and have the opportunity to meet twice a month with an amazing group of people and continue this learning.

Go to act.alz.org/go to/.

Hey, Boomer.

And help us defeat this disease.

Stacy, thank you so much for all that you shared today and your, your sweet personality and your love of your dogs.

Well, thank you for having me, Wendy.

This was fun and it's one of my favorite subjects.

So enjoy.

We'll give Sadie our love.

I will, Will.

Okay, bye.